What County Was Most Responsible For The Defeat Of Germany In WW2?

[KG_Cloghaun]

I voted for America ofcourse.

Without American backing (Detroit in particular), Great Britain would've agreed to a negotiated peace by the end of 42'.

Think of everything America did to make the Russians successful. We carried two fronts, Italy & France. We led the strategic bombing campaign over Germany (in daylight I might add) which crippled their factories & oil production. Most of all we initiated the Lend-Lease program.

If Germany only had Russia to deal with during WW2, I think they could've overcome their initial mistakes & defeated Russia.

Another way of looking at this question is to simply ask which country would win against the other?

Imagine Nimitz rolling into the Black Sea with the 5th fleet to land the 4th,5th & 6th Marine Divisions at Sevastopol.

[KG_Koz]

I dont know Frank. I have a feeling that the 4th, 5th and 6th Marine divisions would have had their hands full.

I still say that Germany's peak was in Summer of 42. BEFORE the US entered the war. Before the 2nd Front. Before the bombing.

G. Britain would never have had the stomach to accept the kind of casualties that the Russians endured. I do not think that the US could have accepted the casualty counts. I think that both countries would have sued for peace first.

The best German units were on the E. Front, most German casualties were on the E. Front. Russian casualties made the W. Allies casualties seem insignificant. The Russians turned back the Germans and their axis allies with overwhelming #'s of tanks (mostly Russian designed), Sturmoviks and men.

It was "team" effort, but the Soviets pulled harder than anyone else. They absorbed the best that the Germans had to give and responded with a huge victory at Stalingrad. They were fighting for their lives in a war where no quarter was spared.

[KG_Jag]

Jim with such a closely run things as events were in the battle in front of Moscow and then on the southern steppes in 1942, it is the lend lease to UK and USSR, and the other American help of the bankrupt UK to stay in the war at all that was the difference. Because of the US, the Allies were able to take the offensive in North Africa, while holding Malta, that was all made possible by the US.

As Frank suggested, the UK would have been out of the War in 1940 or 1941 without US economic and material support. With the UK gone (and very likely not even in Greece in 1941), I submit that Hitler could have taken the USSR in 1941.

[KG_Cloghaun]

The US would never have had to accept those kinds of losses because they weren't a bunch of dumbasses like the Soviets.

You don't think the 5th fleet could've turned Sevastopol into a parking lot? Please Jim, open a book & look at the TOE of the 5th fleet. Had their hands full yes- full of Vodka waiting for Bob Hope to show up for a few rounds of golf.

It was a "team" effort alright. The Russian army was one of the worst organized, worst trained armies of the world in 1941, & without an officer corps. The Russians absorbed more because they could afford to based on the unending supply on manpower they could feed into the meatgrinder. The only war it won was a war of attrition.

[Full Monty]

Ignoring Cloghaun's 'Cold War' vintage style comments, the USSR was the only major Allied power that could accept the human cost of defeating Germany. Not because of the vastness of the population but because of the nature of the government. Modern democracies quickly tire of war if casualties mount up, no matter how noble the cause. More authoritarian regimes can exert more control over the media quelling doubts and issuing powerful propaganda images whilst playing up enemy casualties and downplaying their own.

Regarding aid, it wasn't until mid-1941 that the UK started receiving aid of any significance from the US and for the USSR it was very late in 1942.

[KG_Cloghaun]

Well, you can call them an "Authoritarian Regime" & I'll call them "dumbasses". And because of the nature of these "dumbasses", the vastness of their population was too much for the German war machine, thus they won their war of attrition.

My other point was that the US military didn't take the losses the Soviets did because they were an overall better fighting force and placed more of a premium on human life.

[KG_ThorsHammer]

Although Britiain and the US played their part (Britain in the beginning and the US later), it has to be Russia. 9 out of 10 Germans fell on the Russian front.
Lend lease, as important as it was, provided only a fraction of the material the Russians would produce on their own, with the biggest help being the large number of trucks sent over. Had the Germans never invaded Russia, or had they invaded but quickly won, I dont think even a US/British alliance could have defeated Germany/Japan/Italy. With the Russians tying down the bulk of German forces for the remainder of the war, Britain was spared and the US had time to get into the fray. Of course if Canada was a choice, everyone would have picked it I'm sure. We took the continent virtually by ourselves!

[KG_Cloghaun]

Had the Germans never invaded Russia, or had they invaded but quickly won, I dont think even a US/British alliance could have defeated Germany/Japan/Italy.

Blasphemer! Repent! Good thing for you Lent is right around the corner.

Of course if Canada was a choice, everyone would have picked it I'm sure.

Don't sell your country short, Dave. They did a Hell of a job in the Battle of the Atlantic & never get the credit they deserve for it.

[KG_ThorsHammer]

yeah I know, I just didnt think you would so I didnt mention that lol.

[Full Monty]

Originally Posted by KG_Cloghaun

Well, you can call them an "Authoritarian Regime" & I'll call them "dumbasses". And because of the nature of these "dumbasses", the vastness of their population was too much for the German war machine, thus they won their war of attrition.

They didn't fight a 'war of attrition' though. Take the first year of the war out (where the Red Army was nearly destroyed for all sorts of reasons) and the military losses on both sides are not disproportionate. If they had fought the kind of war you believe they did they would have run out of soldiers long before they reached Berlin.

My other point was that the US military didn't take the losses the Soviets did because they were an overall better fighting force and placed more of a premium on human life.

They didn't take the losses because they never fought the main body of the German Army. Be thankful that the Soviets did.