Panzer Command: Kharkov vs. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

[KG_Jag]

In case you missed it here is a link to a May 2008 article by Kevin Prouty that compares the two games:

http://tacticalwargamer.com/articles...ck_vs_cmbb.htm

The analysis includes playtests of essentially the same game run in both game engines.

The Conclusions:

Would I buy PC:K? Yes.

Is it a better tactical game than CM:BB? No, but it is close, and closer than anyone else.

Why would you buy it? It has a developer listening intently, has a unique command system, is growing, is completely moddable

What is the downside? It still feels and operates like a table top game. Phases, opportunity fire, dice rolls, a lot of subjective factors.

[KG_Jag]

I had read Mad Russian's excellent analysis of the two gaming systems last month, but had forgotten where he had posted it. He responded to me on the WaW forum and provided me with the link, which is here--see especially post #206:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm...69&mpage=7&key=

This is what he tells us:

"To bring this thread back on topic let me update some things since I last posted here.

Since a good number of posts early on, in this thread, were by me with questions about the differences let me bring you up to date on what I see now, months later. My last post in this thread was back on March 25th.

Since that time I've gotten both PC:OWS and PC:K. I've played almost constantly in both the CM and PC game systems. I have A LOT of CM commitments that were in place before I decided to buy and support PC.

Here is what I see as a gamer that routinely travels back and forth between the two systems.

1) They are very different systems. Anyone that is looking for a CM clone in PC will be disappointed. This has been pointed out before. It's true. The combat and gaming models are very different.

CM is like a game of chess where you are in control of everything. There is no command structure. You are God and you determine every move for everybody. This is micromanagement down to the lowest degree.

PC is like a team sport. The system isn't so much about micromanaging all your forces. Although the system will allow it in most cases it's not necessary.

2) The game impulses are very different. CM is a single 1 minute turn. PC has two 40 second impulses. After playing this for a very short amount of time I find that I rarely make a change in the reaction phase (the 2nd 40 second impulse) but play it more like a single 80 second turn.

3) The game interfaces different. At first it was hard to get PC what I wanted it to do. But once I learned to set the zoom levels and give platoon orders it takes me no time at all to do a turn. In CM I rarely give platoon orders. When I do mass orders in CM I normally get an entire grouping not just a platoon. Both work well. I actually prefer the way PC works in the game at this point. When playing CM I miss more of the PC options.

4) The graphics are better in PC but both are adequate and not why I play the games.

5) The editor in CM beats the PC editor hands down. There is a Map Maker being worked on and it looks very capable even if it will be more complicated than the CM version.

6) Map size again is in CM's favor. 3+ km in some cases to only a 1km square area for PC.

7) Tank combat is good in both games.

8) Infantry, engineers and artillery has a better model in CM than PC.

9) Destructible buildings and terrain are available in CM but not PC.

10) Aircraft and AA seem about the same to me.

11) Support for the games is all in PC's favor. Mention that there are issues with the game and the Matrix group will try to do something about it. Now you may not get 100% of what you are looking to get changed but at least you will get discussion with it. Not so with CMx1.

12) Continuing games in the series. PC is growing and CMx1 is not.

13) Back coded games in the series. All PC games have the most current options, graphics and coding. Each CM game is independent and all have somewhat different coding.

14) CM has bases to help track your troops in heavy cover. PC has "floating coins". At first this was an issue for me. I couldn't track my guys well enough in trees. But with the F12 option and getting used to the icons I have no preference as to whether I see colored bases or icons.

Whether you will like one over the other is a question of your gaming styles and what you are looking for.

If you have in the past been an ASL, Close Combat or Combat Mission gamer then you should look at this game series and see if it appeals to you. You may well find it does.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 9/22/2008 8:07:03 PM > "

[Palantir]

This sounds like comparing the NFL with College Football.

Both do the samething but in slightly different ways & with different attitudes.

[Palantir]

As soon as PzK gets a scenario editor (and hopefully bumps up the map sizes for Jag) this one will be worth getting for me.

What does anyone else here say about it?

[KG_Panzerschreck]

I havent had any time to sink my teeth into any reviews yet, but when i do ill post my thoughts here.