Logic: The Destroyer of Ignorance

KG_AGCent · #1 06-17-2006, 11:36 AM

Interesting article leading one through a series of propositions, evidience and conclusions with regard to a few current issues.

Logic and evidence.... two tools used in the quest for truth that used to actually be used by people in this country.

http://www.logictimes.com/flowchart.htm

KG_Cloghaun · #2 06-17-2006, 06:33 PM

I don't know why you feel the need to keep portraying the Iraqi war in such a positive light & that Bush is almost ready for sainthood. After serving his father ( a true conservative Republican & veteran) as you did, frankly I'd think your standards would be a wee bit higher.

I'd like to know if you place Iraqi democracy "at any price" to the US? We've been there for 3+ years now & have lost 2,500 soldiers & there is no end in sight to the violence. Would 3 more years & 2,500 more dead US soldiers be acceptable losses if it garuanteed that peace & democracy finally came to Iraq? Not to mention billions of tax payer dollars?

KG_Soldier · #3 06-17-2006, 07:11 PM

Probably so Frank, especially if it means successfully planting a seed of Democracy in the Middle East that helps curb radical Islam. But in the end, the success or failure of the "great experiment" of Democracy in Iraq depends on the people of Iraq. And I don't see us losing many more troops because of the growth of the Army and Government--one more year and we're out. Then we'll see how it goes. Bush's actions in Iraq won't be properly judged for at least ten years. I hope they're judged favorably, but the jury will be out for a long time. Most Americans think Wilson's entering the First WW a good thing. I don't. It's interesting to wonder how our "liberation" of Iraq will be thought of in a hundred years. But we're committed to staying 'til they (the new govt.) ask us to leave, their P.M. says eight months. Note that next month Iraqi security forces take over much of the South from the Brits, Poles, and Japenese. There is progress.

KG_AGCent · #4 06-17-2006, 08:04 PM

This war has actually been the least costly in terms of both real dollars and lives in America's history (as the graphs clearly show) so I fail to see how that is anything other than an emotional reaction to a person that isn't liked (W) thinly veiled behind baseless arguments which have no resemblance to reality. Unless of course they do in which case I would love to see the supporting evidence.

I am not an idealogue looking to defend a position at any cost. I am emminently convincable with evidence and logic. I get irritated at annecdotes and baseless or unsupported assertions. I am not spearheading a Cause for Sainthood for Pres. Bush. First, he is still alive so sainthood is impossible at the moment. Second, I don't expect perfection out of my CinC. Please see http://www.kampfgruppe.us/showthread.php?t=4740 for my thoughts about the President.

KG_SSpoom · #5 06-17-2006, 08:33 PM

Since this war is the "Least costly" I assume Rob that that means it would be worth sacrificing your only childs life for? Please correct me if Im wrong.
Many young Men AND Women have sacrificed their lives so far and 10 times as many as have been killed are maimed. Maimed ....yes more lives are saved by the advances in battlefield medicine and surgery but that also means that many more Seriously, devastatingly seriously wounded are being saved to live the rest of their lives missing limbs, eyes, and souls. I for one dont think the war in Iraq is worth 1 American life, not even 1. The "Cause of a Free Democratic Iraq" is not worth Forcing on the Iraqis, because we are Forcing it on them.It is pretty obvious that quite a few of them have no interest in Democracy. It should be painfully obvious that some parts of this planet are not ready for Democracy and may never be. Who are we to force any political system on any other nation.
If this cause is so worthy how come the Bush twins arent driving trucks in Iraq?

KG_Soldier · #6 06-17-2006, 09:39 PM

And why haven't you refused to work on military jobs?

KG_SSpoom · #7 06-17-2006, 09:43 PM

"And why haven't you refused to work on military jobs?"

For the same reason you still pay taxes.
I still support the soldiers who have to put their lives on the line
even if I dont support the war.
Really an Ignorant question and I am surprised you even asked,
as well as dissapointed.

KG_Soldier · #8 06-17-2006, 09:50 PM

It is an ignorant question in response to your ignorant question: "How come the Bush twins aren't driving trucks in Iraq?" And it seems painfully obvious that more Iraqis want Democracy, or some form thereof, than don't want it.

KG_Cloghaun · #9 06-17-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

baseless arguments which have no resemblance to reality

ouch, that hurts..

It may very well be the least costliest war in terms of $ & troops lost - so what. That wasn't my point. I suppose over 70% of the country is full of shit like me. I suppose those Army & Marine generals who blamed Rumsfeld for so many mishandlings of the war, or not properly equipping our soldiers are traitors. The list goes on & on. The evidence is there. There are issues. Major ones. Even if I showed it to you, you'd throw it back in my face as some "defeatist" agenda by the left.

We're going to curb radical Islam, huh? I can't believe any of you think that for a second. All we are doing is playing baby-sitter to an impending civil war. My God, don't you read the headlines? Just last week, dozens of high school boys were pulled off their school buses & executed, just because they were Shiite. What about the Catholic National in Afganistan a couple months ago that was going to be executed because he converted from Islam? He only lived because the Vatican got involved.

All "they" understand is death. It's engrained in their culture. We should've wen't over there & destroyed everything, captured Saddam, then left. Totally destabilize the country for years to come. That could've been our message sent to the rest of the Middle East. Iran, Syria, whoever. You fuck with us, you get destroyed.

KG_SSpoom · #10 06-17-2006, 10:00 PM

The comment about the "Bush twins" was meant to
show how its seemingly alright for the leaders to send other peoples children
far away to fight for questionable causes but not their own.
How many political leaders children are in Iraq? How many children of the rich? Very Very few but they have no problem sending the children of the poor to fight and die. The poor fight and die in our wars but very very few of the priveledged or rich. But the leaders profit from the sacrifices of the poor.
When you have no personal loss at stake in the decision to make war
its easy to decide to go to war, especially if your portfolio stands to grow
fatter by that decision. the soldiers deserve my support,
but the leaders who decided to wage war do not.