Captured Soviet Armor?

[Palantir]

Can someone enlighten me on how the Germans used the Soviet armor they captured. Interested in their useage in the last years, '44-'45.

Some questions:

Did they put all the same type (model/caliber gun) into one big "formation?"
Did they send older tanks (say models of '40-'43) back for guard duty/reserves or put them on the front line anyway?
Did they send the older "weaker" ones to their allies?
Did they distribute them around?
Were they given to better "elite" type units or to the "weaker" ones?
It all depends I know on what type of tank we're taking about T-34's, Su-85's etc.

Actually- what the heck did they do with any of them? :)
Thanks in advance!

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Hey Kerry. I have a book, give me some time to dig it up. Its on obscure Waffen SS formations. I remember reading in it that an SS unit in Yugoslavia was equiped with early model T-34's. The reason being was that the Partisans had T-34's as well and they could capture parts from them and scavenge parts from Tanks they took out in combat. This book has a ton of info in it. I am currently rearranging my storage room and when i find said book ill look up the info you need and get back to you. Probably be a day or two.

BTW, i have some cool pics of captured russian armor being used by the Germans. Let me know if you would like them.

[KG_ThorsHammer]

From what I understand, captured models of worth such as T34s etc were retrofitted with copulas and better gunsights, etc and then sent back to the front, preferably to join similar models. So many T34s were salvaged before that parts were not generally a problem. I think, especially late in the war, frontline units used them right away after marking them with German insignia.
I remember a reference to a German infantry unit using captured T34/85s in east prussia. Just before operation Citadel, A soviet repair shop was captured by the Das Reich Division, full of T34s. They were retrofitted and formed a 3rd Battalion for its panzer regiment for the upcoming offensive. I'm sure Schrecks book will be much more informative.

[Palantir]

Thanks for the info TH, and I'll be waiting for even more details schreck!

[KG_Cloghaun]

http://beute.narod.ru/Beutepanzer/su/su_trophy.htm

The translation is a little sketchy, but it gives you an idea of they were preferably formed into companies to augment understrength Panzer battalions & Panzer destroyer battalions.

However, this may be less true of their use in late war years. According to my Nafziger book on the Waffen SS Order of Battle, Das Reich recieved 25 T-34's in February of 1943. But I can find no record of them getting any additional Russian armor after that date. The last OOB I have for them lists them as only having Stugs & MarkIV's, in November of 44'.

3rd SS is the same story- no Russian armor listed.

*I have read before that 5th SS Wiking had a handful of T-34's in the Battle of Seelow Heights.

It's late, but I'll take a look at my Panzers & Artillery OOB book & check out the Wehrmacht divisions tommorrow.

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Ok, this is after a brief scan of the book. I am swamped right now and didnt have time to read more. I wish i did, this is a facinating book that i havent read in years. I almost forgot about it because its been in storage for so long. But there is a section in the middle thats dated 4/8/45 and is the official document, in German, of the total number of Tanks and Assault Guns in Army Group Vistula. Broken down by Division and Tank Type. Unfortunately all Jagdpanzer types are not ID'd by specific make, they are just called "Jagdpanzer" as a generic term and it could mean anything from a Jagdtiger to a Marder I.

The 600th Inf. Div {Russian Voluteers} Had No running T-34's, but had 9 on Short repair.

Festung Stettin had 1 T-34 on Medium repair.

For a laugh check this out -

SS Stug Battalion 105 Had 10 Italian Stugs operational and 1 on Short repair.

SS Stug Company 105 Had 1 Italian Stug on Medium Repair and 10 M-13/40 Tanks operational and 5 on Medium Repair.


I did see mentioned in one other book i have that many captured T-34's and several SU-85's and even a few IS-2's were put into use by the Germans in the Kurland pocket.

BTW, I highly reccomend the book i was talking about earlier. Its called -

Forgotten Legions
Obscure Combat Formations ot the Waffen SS
By Antonio Munoz

When i get more time Kerry ill delve deeper into the book, i just dont have the time right now, sorry.

[Palantir]

Thanks for the information!

Seems the "ideal" plan earlier in the war was to group them if possibile but in reality they just used them as they captured them. And that they seem destined to have been sent to the "better" armor divisons if possibile: the 600th ID having 9 on hand throws that off a bit though.

Would you say from your reading that in the later stages of the war if a unit captured a Soviet tank & they got it running they just used it themselves?

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Yes and no. The no part is that at all times in the war most units that captured them would keep them if it was just one here or there if they were in running condition. Where they were sent back was when they captured large groups of them and or ones that could be used but needed repairs. Sometimes though, if a Panzer unit captured them and they could patch one up quick, they would keep them as well. This seems to be the basic jist of what i have read in the books i own over the years.

I have just read over the weekend mentionings of T-34/76 equiped SS units in Yugoslavia as i mentioned earlier in this thread over at AGC forums but no one ID'd the unit.

[KG_ThorsHammer]

I know one thing; If i were a german infantry unit especially at the front facing the red hordes and I captured a tank, I;d be keeping it.

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Here is a pic of a captured T-34 converted into a Flakpanzer -



A captured T-34 -



A captured SU-122 -